Tutu snubs Blair, calls for Blait and Bush to face Hague trial

[Steve Hayes]

Tutu calls for Blair, Bush to face Hague trial
02 Sep 2012 14:12 - dpa, AFP

Desmond Tutu has called for UK ex-leader Tony Blair and former US president
George Bush to face trial in The Hague for their role in the Iraq war.

The Nobel laureate, writing in Britain's Observer, accused the pair of lying
about weapons of mass destruction and said the invasion left the world more
destabilised and divided "than any other conflict in history".

Archbishop Emeritus Tutu argued that different standards appeared to apply for
prosecuting African leaders than Western counterparts, and added that the
death toll during and after the Iraq conflict was sufficient for Blair and
Bush to face trial.

"The cost of the decision to rid Iraq of its by-all-accounts despotic and
murderous leader has been staggering ... More than 110–000 Iraqis have died in
the conflict since 2003 and millions have been displaced. By the end of last
year, nearly 4–500 American soldiers had been killed and more than 32–000
wounded," Tutu wrote in the Sunday weekly.

"On these grounds alone, in a consistent world, those responsible for this
suffering and loss of life should be treading the same path as some of their
African and Asian peers who have been made to answer for their actions in The
Hague."

"But even greater costs have been exacted beyond the killing fields, in the
hardened hearts and minds of members of the human family across the world."

Tutu, a long-standing vocal critic of the Iraq war, also defended his decision
to not attend a South African conference on leadership last week because Blair
was attending.

"I did not deem it appropriate to have this discussion ... As the date drew
nearer, I felt an increasingly profound sense of discomfort about attending a
summit on 'leadership' with Mr Blair," he added.

'Playground bullies'
The Nobel Peace Prize winner also argued that the US-led 2003 Iraq war to oust
Saddam Hussein had created the backdrop for civil war in Syria, and a
potential wider Middle East crisis involving Iran.

"The then-leaders of the US and UK fabricated the grounds to behave like
playground bullies and drive us further apart," he wrote.

"They have driven us to the edge of a precipice where we now stand – with the
spectre of Syria and Iran before us."

Meanwhile, Blair said on Sunday Tutu's comments were completely wrong.

In a statement, Blair said: "To repeat the old canard that we lied about the
intelligence is completely wrong as every single independent analysis of the
evidence has shown."

He added: "And to say that the fact that Saddam massacred hundreds of
thousands of his citizens is irrelevant to the morality of removing him is
bizarre."

Tutu questioned in his article the different standards for bringing African
and Asian leaders to justice, and for Western leaders. – Sapa-dpa, AFP

http://mg.co.za/article/2012-09-02-tutu-calls-for-blair-bush-to-face-hague-trial

[j***@satx.rr.com]

Archbishop Tutu's Moral Meltdown

By Mark Tooley
http://juicyecumenism.com/2012/09/02/archbishop-tutus-moral-meltdown/
Sept. 2, 2012

Retired South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu now wants George W. Bush
and Tony Blair to face trial at the International Criminal Court
because of the Iraq War's "immorality" and their "lies" about weapons
of mass destruction.

Last week Tutu refused to appear at a conference because Blair would
also be there, though not at the same time.

In a Sunday British newspaper op-ed, Tutu denounced Blair and Bush as
"playground bullies" whose Iraq invasion had "destabilised and
polarised the world to a greater extent than any other conflict in
history."

Tutu asked: "On what grounds do we decide that Robert Mugabe should go
the International Criminal Court, Tony Blair should join the
international speakers' circuit, bin Laden should be assassinated, but
Iraq should be invaded, not because it possesses weapons of mass
destruction, as Mr Bush's chief supporter, Mr Blair, confessed last
week, but in order to get rid of Saddam Hussein?"

Although admitting Saddam Hussein was a "despotic and murderous
leader," Tutu avoids elaborating and offers no alternatives to his
removal by Western force. He cites 110,000 Iraqis killed in war but
not the many more Saddam killed during supposed peace.

Blair has responded:

"I have a great respect for Archbishop Tutu's fight against apartheid
- where we were on the same side of the argument - but to repeat the
old canard that we lied about the intelligence is completely wrong as
every single independent analysis of the evidence has shown.

"And to say that the fact that Saddam massacred hundreds of thousands
of his citizens is irrelevant to the morality of removing him is
bizarre. We have just had the memorials both of the Halabja massacre
where thousands of people were murdered in one day by Saddam's use of
chemical weapons; and that of the Iran-Iraq war where casualties
numbered up to a million including many killed by chemical weapons. In
addition his slaughter of his political opponents, the treatment of
the Marsh Arabs and the systematic torture of his people make the case
for removing him morally strong. But the basis of action was as stated
at the time.

"In short this is the same argument we have had many times with
nothing new to say. But surely in a healthy democracy people can agree
to disagree. I would also point out that, despite the problems, Iraq
today has an economy three times or more in size with child mortality
rate cut by a third of what it was. And with investment hugely
increased in places like Basra."

Unlike the vast majority of African Christians, Tutu is a theological
liberal more akin to U.S. Episcopal bishops than African Anglicans.
His big theme is that Saddam and bin Laden are God's children, no less
than Bush and Blair. Except he usually has more anger for Bush and
Blair, plus nearly any Israeli.

Traditional Christians understand all persons are created in God's
image but have a choice on whether to accept His invite to become His
children. The available evidence is that Saddam and bin Laden declined
the invite.

As to the Iraq War's morality, it's still unexplained by critics like
Tutu what viable alternatives were available in 2003 regarding a mass
murdering dictator who had started 2 wars and joined the Taliban
regime in publicly endorsing 9-11. Although Tutu is now over age 80,
his claim that the Iraq War has destabilized the world more than any
conflict in history indicates he has no memory prior to 2003.

END

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=16481

[John Cooper]

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Retired South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu now wants George W. Bush
and Tony Blair to face trial at the International Criminal Court
because of the Iraq War's "immorality" and their "lies" about weapons
of mass destruction.

So do thousands of others.
_______________________________________________________

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Tutu asked: "On what grounds do we decide that Robert Mugabe should go
the International Criminal Court, Tony Blair should join the
international speakers' circuit, bin Laden should be assassinated, but
Iraq should be invaded, not because it possesses weapons of mass
destruction, as Mr Bush's chief supporter, Mr Blair, confessed last
week, but in order to get rid of Saddam Hussein?"

Very reasonable questions.
______________________________________________________

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Although admitting Saddam Hussein was a "despotic and murderous
leader," Tutu avoids elaborating and offers no alternatives to his
removal by Western force. He cites 110,000 Iraqis killed in war but
not the many more Saddam killed during supposed peace.
"I have a great respect for Archbishop Tutu's fight against apartheid
- where we were on the same side of the argument - but to repeat the
old canard that we lied about the intelligence is completely wrong as
every single independent analysis of the evidence has shown.

That's a lie for a start. But that's nothing new to those of us over here.
______________________________________________________

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
"And to say that the fact that Saddam massacred hundreds of thousands
of his citizens is irrelevant to the morality of removing him is
bizarre. We have just had the memorials both of the Halabja massacre
where thousands of people were murdered in one day by Saddam's use of
chemical weapons; and that of the Iran-Iraq war where casualties
numbered up to a million including many killed by chemical weapons. In
addition his slaughter of his political opponents, the treatment of
the Marsh Arabs and the systematic torture of his people make the case
for removing him morally strong. But the basis of action was as stated
at the time.

Who backed Saddam Hussein with his war against Iran? Who supplied him with
the chemicals to make chemical weapons? Who encouraged the Shias and the
Kurds to rise up against Saddam Hussein with the promise of military
backing, and then left them in the lurch, when he of course put down the
insurrection? In other words, who was behind an awful lot of the bloodshed,
which could have been prevented? The usual suspects.
_______________________________________________________

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
"I would also point out that, despite the problems, Iraq
today has an economy three times or more in size with child mortality
rate cut by a third of what it was. And with investment hugely
increased in places like Basra."

Iraq's economy is bound to be bigger now than it was in the decade of
crippling sanctions, which killed many thousands of innocent people,
including many children. And Western financial involvement in the country
has naturally increased. They conquered the place.
______________________________________________________

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
As to the Iraq War's morality, it's still unexplained by critics like
Tutu what viable alternatives were available in 2003 regarding a mass
murdering dictator who had started 2 wars and joined the Taliban
regime in publicly endorsing 9-11. Although Tutu is now over age 80,
his claim that the Iraq War has destabilized the world more than any
conflict in history indicates he has no memory prior to 2003.

Saddam was backed by America in the Iran war. Saddam informed the
Americans, through their ambassador in Iraq, of his intention to attack
Kuwait, for slant-drilling, and manipulating the oil price, which he
declared were economic acts of war against his country. He assumed, from
the Americans' reaction, that he was clear to go. Whether he was
double-crossed, or whether there was a genuine diplomatic misunderstanding,
we cannot now tell.

The Taliban did not publicly endorse the acts of September the 11th, 2001.
Neither did Saddam Hussein.

The American and British invasion of Iraq, has strewn the land with depleted
uranium, which is the cause of many birth defects amongst Iraqi children,
and has marred the land for thousands of years. It is also the cause of
'Gulf Syndrome' in returning military personnel.

These two men will of course stand trial, if not in this time, then at the
Grand Assize.

John Cooper

[1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist]

"John Cooper" wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

<***@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
_______________________________________________________

Post by John Cooper

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Tutu asked: "On what grounds do we decide that Robert Mugabe should go
the International Criminal Court, Tony Blair should join the
international speakers' circuit, bin Laden should be assassinated, but
Iraq should be invaded, not because it possesses weapons of mass
destruction, as Mr Bush's chief supporter, Mr Blair, confessed last
week, but in order to get rid of Saddam Hussein?"

Very reasonable questions.

No-one can or will understand the way Almighty God works his own Will and
operates His 'vast eternal plan' through the leaders of governments and
nations.
"8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,
saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my
ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)


Jeff...