Discussion:
Why Zambia’s Vice-President doesn’t like South Africa – and why he might have a point
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Steve Hayes
2013-05-02 06:45:38 UTC
Permalink
So Zambian Vice-President Guy Scott doesn’t like South Africa, or South
Africans. In an otherwise hilarious interview with the Guardian, Scott flouted
the rules of diplomacy to launch a full-fronted assault on our foreign policy,
our president and our general disposition (arrogant and overbearing,
apparently). Should we be insulted? Absolutely – but only because, like all
the best insults, Scott’s are very close to the bone. By SIMON ALLISON

Interviewing politicians is, as a rule, not particularly exciting for
journalists. Interviews can be a nightmare to schedule, and when they finally
happen it’s hard to get politicians singing from anything other than their
tightly-scripted song sheet. At times, the whole exercise feels like a
glorified press release, and we have to work really hard to fill in the gaps
and find an interesting angle.

Every now and then, however, someone will come along who wanders so far
off-script that the headlines practically write themselves. Right now, that
someone is Zambian Vice-President Guy Scott.

In an astonishingly frank and frequently hilarious interview with the
Guardian’s David Smith (worth reading in full), Scott dispensed with all
diplomatic niceties to offer his opinion on Robert Mugabe, gay rights, his
government’s human rights record and – most interestingly for us – South
Africa and South Africans.

He’s not very impressed with us.

Try this for starters:

“The South Africans are very backward in terms of historical development,” he
told Smith. “I hate South Africans. That's not a fair thing to say because I
like a lot of South Africans but they really think they're the bees' knees and
actually they've been the cause of so much trouble in this part of the world…I
have a suspicion the blacks model themselves on the whites now that they're in
power. 'Don't you know who we are, man?’”

He continued in this vein: “I dislike South Africa for the same reason that
Latin Americans dislike the United States, I think. It's just too big and too
unsubtle.”

Ouch. Arrogant, unsubtle trouble-makers who haven’t quite got over apartheid –
surely he’s got us all wrong? Doesn’t he know we’re the rainbow nation?

But much as I want to be offended, my inclination to argue with Scott is
tempered by the fact that I’ve said nearly the exact same thing myself. “The
rest of Africa doesn’t like us very much,” I wrote in an analysis last year.
“Being a South African in Africa is like being an American in the rest of the
world. We’re looked upon with a mix of envy and resentment, our wealth and
power relative to the rest of the continent ensuring that most of the time we
get our way.”

Alright Scott, we’ll cede this point to you – we can be a little overbearing
when it comes to our interactions with Africa. And yes, our current leaders
may have learned a few tricks from their apartheid-era predecessors,
specifically the one about running an entire country for the benefit of a
privileged minority (for ‘whites’ insert ‘Guptas’).

But Scott’s not yet finished with his South Africa-bashing, going on to
question the holy grail of South African foreign policy: our BRICS membership.
“They think in Brics that the 's' actually stands for South Africa whereas it
stands for Africa. Nobody would want to go in for a partnership with Brazil,
China, India and South Africa for Christ's sake.”

Again, we must reluctantly concede that Scott has a point. South Africa’s
addition to BRICS has always been contentious, precisely because we do not
wield anything near the kind of economic or political power of the other
nations in the group (including Russia, which Scott failed to mention). As the
Economist explained in March, our primary qualification was geographic.

“There was just one problem with the BRICs: no African countries were
included. This was a little embarrassing. Overlooking Africa suggested that
the continent was an economic irrelevance, good only for providing raw
materials to the rest. It also cast doubt on the group’s claim to speak for
the emerging world. Two African countries might have been candidates, Nigeria
and South Africa. But only one would keep the acronym intact. And so, in 2010,
the club of BRICs became the BRICS.”

Scott’s final attack was even more personal, and won’t make him any friends in
the Union Building. He compared President Jacob Zuma to another South African
president – and no, it wasn’t Mandela.

“He's very like De Klerk,” Scott said. “He tells us, ‘You just leave Zimbabwe
to me.’ Excuse me, who the hell liberated you anyway, was it not us? I mean, I
quite like him, he seems a rather genial character but I pity him his
advisers.”

Again, this taps into a gnawing resentment from other African countries about
South Africa’s at times bull-headed foreign policy. The mediation efforts in
Zimbabwe may formally be under the SADC banner, but Pretoria is setting the
agenda, and has been since Mbeki’s time in office. This is clearly beginning
to rankle with our regional neighbours. And the barb about Zuma’s advisers is
disingenuous, and is the only nod to diplomatic courtesy in the entire
interview. For Zuma, ultimately, is responsible for appointing his pitiable
advisors; to criticize them is to criticize him.

But perhaps Scott’s most telling point is his position on who liberated South
Africa. A number of factors went into the dismantling of the apartheid state
in 1994, and a major one was the support of other African states for the
anti-apartheid movement. Zambia in particular played a hugely significant
role, hosting the ANC’s head office-in-exile where, for a time, a certain
Jacob Zuma found a home.

For this, South Africa owes Zambia a debt of gratitude, but it’s a debt that
Zambia’s vice-president clearly feels has not been paid. This might be the
underlying cause of his resentment, with our sometimes brash behaviour only
making things worse.

Either way, it’s clear that the South African government has a few bridges it
needs to build with its Zambian counterpart, and it will be interesting to see
how our top politicians react to Scott’s frank, if insulting, assessment –
which, like all the best insults, is just a little too close to the bone for
comfort. DM

Zambian vice-president: ‘South Africans are backward’ on the Guardian

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-05-02-why-zambias-vice-president-doesnt-like-south-africa-and-why-he-might-have-a-point
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Tony Cooper
2013-05-02 21:16:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 02 May 2013 08:45:38 +0200, Steve Hayes
Post by Steve Hayes
“Being a South African in Africa is like being an American in the rest of the
world. We’re looked upon with a mix of envy and resentment, our wealth and
power relative to the rest of the continent ensuring that most of the time we
get our way.”
Isn't the speaker doing something here that you decry? Referring to
Africa as a whole as if it's really not a whole and must be viewed as
a sum of the parts? Like Americans do when saying they're "going to
Africa"?

Not that *I* think there's anything wrong with the usage. I'm not
even sure I understand your objection.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Steve Hayes
2013-05-03 06:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 02 May 2013 08:45:38 +0200, Steve Hayes
Post by Steve Hayes
“Being a South African in Africa is like being an American in the rest of the
world. We’re looked upon with a mix of envy and resentment, our wealth and
power relative to the rest of the continent ensuring that most of the time we
get our way.”
Isn't the speaker doing something here that you decry? Referring to
Africa as a whole as if it's really not a whole and must be viewed as
a sum of the parts? Like Americans do when saying they're "going to
Africa"?
Not that *I* think there's anything wrong with the usage. I'm not
even sure I understand your objection.
I wasn't objecting, merely giving an example of some ways in which the word
"Africa" is used within Africa.

"Africa", like "America" can mean various different things, depending on who's
speaking, what they are thinking of, and where they happen to be at the time.

I'm not deprecating any particular usage, just pointing out that there are
different ones.

It's you and Evan getting all prescriptivist about my use of "America" that I
decry.

[follow-ups set to aue]
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
John Doe
2013-05-03 14:15:19 UTC
Permalink
This troll should at least be labeled off topic...
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Subject: Why Zambia's Vice-President doesn't like South Africa - and why he might have a point
Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 08:45:38 +0200
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So Zambian Vice-President Guy Scott doesn't like South Africa, or South
Africans. In an otherwise hilarious interview with the Guardian, Scott flouted
the rules of diplomacy to launch a full-fronted assault on our foreign policy,
our president and our general disposition (arrogant and overbearing,
apparently). Should we be insulted? Absolutely - but only because, like all
the best insults, Scott's are very close to the bone. By SIMON ALLISON
Interviewing politicians is, as a rule, not particularly exciting for
journalists. Interviews can be a nightmare to schedule, and when they finally
happen it's hard to get politicians singing from anything other than their
tightly-scripted song sheet. At times, the whole exercise feels like a
glorified press release, and we have to work really hard to fill in the gaps
and find an interesting angle.
Every now and then, however, someone will come along who wanders so far
off-script that the headlines practically write themselves. Right now, that
someone is Zambian Vice-President Guy Scott.
In an astonishingly frank and frequently hilarious interview with the
Guardian's David Smith (worth reading in full), Scott dispensed with all
diplomatic niceties to offer his opinion on Robert Mugabe, gay rights, his
government's human rights record and - most interestingly for us - South
Africa and South Africans.
He's not very impressed with us.
"The South Africans are very backward in terms of historical development," he
told Smith. "I hate South Africans. That's not a fair thing to say because I
like a lot of South Africans but they really think they're the bees' knees and
actually they've been the cause of so much trouble in this part of the world.I
have a suspicion the blacks model themselves on the whites now that they're in
power. 'Don't you know who we are, man?'"
He continued in this vein: "I dislike South Africa for the same reason that
Latin Americans dislike the United States, I think. It's just too big and too
unsubtle."
Ouch. Arrogant, unsubtle trouble-makers who haven't quite got over apartheid -
surely he's got us all wrong? Doesn't he know we're the rainbow nation?
But much as I want to be offended, my inclination to argue with Scott is
tempered by the fact that I've said nearly the exact same thing myself. "The
rest of Africa doesn't like us very much," I wrote in an analysis last year.
"Being a South African in Africa is like being an American in the rest of the
world. We're looked upon with a mix of envy and resentment, our wealth and
power relative to the rest of the continent ensuring that most of the time we
get our way."
Alright Scott, we'll cede this point to you - we can be a little overbearing
when it comes to our interactions with Africa. And yes, our current leaders
may have learned a few tricks from their apartheid-era predecessors,
specifically the one about running an entire country for the benefit of a
privileged minority (for 'whites' insert 'Guptas').
But Scott's not yet finished with his South Africa-bashing, going on to
question the holy grail of South African foreign policy: our BRICS membership.
"They think in Brics that the 's' actually stands for South Africa whereas it
stands for Africa. Nobody would want to go in for a partnership with Brazil,
China, India and South Africa for Christ's sake."
Again, we must reluctantly concede that Scott has a point. South Africa's
addition to BRICS has always been contentious, precisely because we do not
wield anything near the kind of economic or political power of the other
nations in the group (including Russia, which Scott failed to mention). As the
Economist explained in March, our primary qualification was geographic.
"There was just one problem with the BRICs: no African countries were
included. This was a little embarrassing. Overlooking Africa suggested that
the continent was an economic irrelevance, good only for providing raw
materials to the rest. It also cast doubt on the group's claim to speak for
the emerging world. Two African countries might have been candidates, Nigeria
and South Africa. But only one would keep the acronym intact. And so, in 2010,
the club of BRICs became the BRICS."
Scott's final attack was even more personal, and won't make him any friends in
the Union Building. He compared President Jacob Zuma to another South African
president - and no, it wasn't Mandela.
"He's very like De Klerk," Scott said. "He tells us, 'You just leave Zimbabwe
to me.' Excuse me, who the hell liberated you anyway, was it not us? I mean, I
quite like him, he seems a rather genial character but I pity him his
advisers."
Again, this taps into a gnawing resentment from other African countries about
South Africa's at times bull-headed foreign policy. The mediation efforts in
Zimbabwe may formally be under the SADC banner, but Pretoria is setting the
agenda, and has been since Mbeki's time in office. This is clearly beginning
to rankle with our regional neighbours. And the barb about Zuma's advisers is
disingenuous, and is the only nod to diplomatic courtesy in the entire
interview. For Zuma, ultimately, is responsible for appointing his pitiable
advisors; to criticize them is to criticize him.
But perhaps Scott's most telling point is his position on who liberated South
Africa. A number of factors went into the dismantling of the apartheid state
in 1994, and a major one was the support of other African states for the
anti-apartheid movement. Zambia in particular played a hugely significant
role, hosting the ANC's head office-in-exile where, for a time, a certain
Jacob Zuma found a home.
For this, South Africa owes Zambia a debt of gratitude, but it's a debt that
Zambia's vice-president clearly feels has not been paid. This might be the
underlying cause of his resentment, with our sometimes brash behaviour only
making things worse.
Either way, it's clear that the South African government has a few bridges it
needs to build with its Zambian counterpart, and it will be interesting to see
how our top politicians react to Scott's frank, if insulting, assessment -
which, like all the best insults, is just a little too close to the bone for
comfort. DM
Zambian vice-president: 'South Africans are backward' on the Guardian
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-05-02-why-zambias-vice-president-doesnt-like-south-africa-and-why-he-might-have-a-point
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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